A BRIEF HISTORY
OF TOY-RELATED
USENET NEWSGROUPS

LEGO & MISC

It all began with Lego(r).

In early 1993, an alt.* group was created for the discussion of Lego(r)
construction toys. The group, alt.toys.lego thrived almost immediately and after
only 9 months of existence, plans were made to propose a more widely
propagated rec.* group of similar content. In October of 1993, the first proposal
was drafted for rec.toys.lego.

The proposal for rec.toys.lego, written by David Koblas, also included a
provision for the creation of rec.toys.misc. The proposal called for the creation of
an entirely new hierarchy: rec.toys.*. As was the convention of the day, the
miscellaneous group was added to serve as a "catch-all" for all non-Lego(r)
related toy discussion. Though not the primary focus of the proposal,
rec.toys.misc would soon become an active part of the rec.toys.* hierarchy.

Interestingly, rec.toys.lego was almost called rec.toys.construction.  Some felt
that this would be a broader name and would lead to more inclusive discussion.
However, David Koblas stuck to his guns. His original intention was wider
distribution of the alt.toys.lego group. He felt that the name alt.toys.construction
wouldn't be quite as appealing to Lego(r) enthusiasts, especially since
alt.toys.lego would still be an active group. When the Call For Vote was issued,
the name remained rec.toys.lego. The charter was as follows:

	rec.toys.lego charter:
	----------------------
	To provide a forum for the discussion of all things and experiences 	
	relating to the Lego(tm), Duplo(tm) and compatible construction toys. 	
	Including interesting models that one has built, experiences one 		
	has had using legos, or questions about how to build particular 		
	components.


The original charter for rec.toys.misc is somewhat humorous in retrospect. It
originally read:

	rec.toys.misc charter:
	----------------------
	To provide a forum for discussion of non-Lego toy topics, from
	Barbi [sic] Dolls to My Little Pony gift sets.


Of course, these topics were not to be the focus of the rec.toys.misc group in
actuality, but it is interesting to see how the group was defined in relation to the
Lego(r) group.

In the final Call for Votes, the charter was changed to the current version:

	rec.toys.misc charter:
	----------------------
	To provide a forum for discussion of topics relating to toys which do not 	
	have their own specific news group in the rec.toys.* hierarchy.

It was this charter that was to set the stage for most of the other group creations
that occurred within the rec.toys.* hierarchy. Topics were typically weeded out of
rec.toys.misc.

On January 3, 1994, the results of the voting were announced. Both
rec.toys.lego and rec.toys.misc passed by substantial margins.

	rec.toys.{lego,misc} vote results - 243 valid votes

	 Yes   No :  2/3? >100 : Pass? : Group

	 219   20 :  Yes   Yes : Yes   : rec.toys.lego
	 211   18 :  Yes   Yes :  Yes  : rec.toys.misc

The toy groups really blossomed in their first few months of creation. Very soon,
rec.toys.misc began to receive more posts per day than rec.toys.lego. The
morass of various topics discussed in rec.toys.misc was the motivation for the
first proposed split of the fledgling hierarchy.


FISHER-PRICE

As an interesting footnote, Fisher-Price toys have the distinction of being the first
suggested split for the rec.toys.* hierarchy (though not the first official proposal).
On March 9, 1994, Sandra Flor submitted a request for the creation of a group to
be called either rec.toys.fp or rec.toys.fisher-price. However, Ms. Flor did not
submit a valid proposal (only a request) and the idea was never followed up.


CARS

On January 22, 1995, almost a year to the day after the creation of the rec.toys.*
hierarchy, the first official split proposal was presented.  The proposal was for a
group to be named rec.toys.cars.  Written by Serg Palanov, the proposal was
meant to give toy car collectors of all stripes a place of their own. Posts dealing
with diecast cars had become a significant part of the rec.toys.misc group and
constituted a fairly homogeneous topic area. Thus, the proposal for rec.toys.cars
was born.

The charter of the rec.toys.cars group underwent some changes during the
proposal process. Originally, the charter read:

	CHARTER:
	
	rec.toys.cars will be an unmoderated forum for discussion of  various	
	collectible toy cars, accessories, related articles, stories, trades, wants, 	
	and sales of related items.
	This group will encompass but in no way be limited to:
	Hotwheels                Lledo
	Matchbox                 Dinky
	Johny Lightning          Majorette
	Tomica                   Racing Champions
	Micromachines            Ertl
	Bburago                  Corgi
	
	and any other toy car and related manufacturers.

This lengthy and specific charter was trimmed down to its more generic and
inclusive final format by the time the Call For Votes was issued. The final
version reads:


	CHARTER
	
	Rec.toys.cars will be an unmoderated group for the discussion 		
	of toy cars, including: values, trading, selling, buying, locating new and 	
	old items, updates on upcoming events and new releases, and history as
	well as collectability of toy cars and their related items. The group will 	
	mainly focus on, but in no way be limited to, diecast toy cars.


On May 3, 1995 the result of the vote was announced. The new newsgroup
rec.toys.cars had passed by a narrow margin, 122:15. Because of the Usenet
new group creation rule that a vote must have 100 more YES votes than NO
votes to pass, only 8 more NO votes would have sunk rec.toys.cars. This was
the smallest margin of victory for any of the toy-related newsgroups.


DOLLS & STAR WARS

March of 1995 was a busy month for toys on the Usenet. Two new proposals
were presented that had relevance for the rec.toys.* hierarchy as well as several
other existing hierarchies. On March 7, 1995 Leigh Melton unveiled a proposal
for rec.collecting.dolls. The very next day, Gus Lopez brought forth his ambitious
reorganization of the rec.arts.sf.starwars hierarchy that would eventually result in
the group rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.  Although both of these proposals were
for groups outside the rec.toys.* hierarchy, much of what was to be discussed in
these groups would be toy-related.

In the case of rec.collecting.dolls, posts were scattered among the rec.collecting
and rec.toys.misc groups as well as several mailing list devoted to collecting
dolls. It was felt that the rec.collecting hierarchy was the appropriate venue for
this new group to distinguish is from the toys newsgroups that did not focus
exclusively on collecting for collecting's sake.  The charter for the group was as
follows:

	CHARTER:

	rec.collecting.dolls is proposed as an unmoderated discussion group 	
	for those interested in collecting dolls for both amusement and 	
	investment. Discussion of fashion dolls, vinyl dolls, cloth  dolls and any 	
	other type of doll or doll accessory will be welcome.

On May 25, 1995 the vote result for rec.collecting.dolls was announced. The
group had passed easily by a margin of 248 to 20. Almost immediately after its
creation, rec.collecting dolls became an active and popular group.

The path for Gus Lopez's reorganization of the Star Wars groups was far more
ambitious.  Star Wars has always been a popular subject on the Usenet and
many felt that a partitioning of subjects within the general topic would be
beneficial to futhering discussions.  Gus Lopez (assisted by David Kemper aka Gallandro, 
the original moderator of the info group) proposed the creation of three new groups
and the renaming of the existing group to comprise a new hierarchy consisting of
four groups. Originally, these groups were proposed as:

	rec.arts.starwars.collecting
	rec.arts.starwars.games
	rec.arts.starwars.info
		  and
        rec.arts.starwars.misc (renaming rec.arts.sf.starwars)

Note the absence of the "sf" in the group names. This point of the proposal was
somewhat contentious and was ultimately changed to its final format in a second
draft of the proposal (March 22, 1995). With the "sf" added back to all the group
names, the proposal with these four groups was put to a vote:

	rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting
	rec.arts.sf.starwars.games
	rec.arts.sf.starwars.info
		  and
        rec.arts.sf.starwars.misc (renaming rec.arts.sf.starwars)

Of these four groups, the rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting newsgroup was to focus
on toys as well as other Star Wars collectibles. The charter for that group was as
follows:

	CHARTER:
	
	This newsgroup will be open to discussion of all issues and  topics 	
	pertaining to Star Wars collectibles: toys, posters, cards, ceramics, etc.  	
	This could include information about  available collectibles and 		
	wanted/for-sale posts relating to Star Wars collectibles.

On May 23, 1995 the voting results of this massive reorganization were
announced. All groups had passed by a landslide with
rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting passing by a margin of 351 to 27.


VINTAGE

On January 2, 1996 Tom Rhone proposed what was to become the most
discussed split to date: rec.toys.vintage.  The group was proposed to give classic
toy enthusiasts a place to discuss their interests without having to compete with
posts dealing with contemporary toys. However, there were numerous points of
debate regarding such issues as how the group should be named, how the scope
of the group should be defined and how the charter should read.

The evolution of the charter gives only a hint of how the discussion proceeded.
Originally the charter was drafted to read:

	CHARTER: rec.toys.vintage
	
	An unmoderated newsgroup which would provide a world wide
	forum for the discussion of all aspects of vintage toys.
	
	To spread knowledge, and enjoyment, anywhere on the
	internet, surrounding the collecting and discussion of
	vintage toys.
	
	To provide a forum for the discussion of all interests
	surrounding vintage toys, who's audience grows daily.
	
	END CHARTER.

Many felt that that this was too vague and needed more clarity in both definition
and scope. One of the main points of contention was the plan to define "vintage"
as anything 20 years or older. This "rolling timeline" definition presented a
potential problem in that the group's subject material would be constantly "rolling
over" as each new year passed. Despite the objections of some, the group went
to a vote with the following charter:

	CHARTER: rec.toys.vintage
	
	The purpose of rec.toys.vintage is to provide a medium for
	those interested in expressing, sharing and exchanging their
	views, ideas and feelings about the collecting of vintage toys.
	For purposes of this newsgroup, a "vintage" toy is defined
	as a toy or game about 20 years or older which is valued as
	memorabilia or for historical value rather than for its "play
	value."
	
	Discussions encouraged in this newsgroup include;
	
	 - Any type toy or game about 20 years or older
	 - Toy restoration
	 - Toy display
	 - Rarity and value of particular toys
	 - Original contents and parts of toys and games
	 - Wanted to buy posts
	 - For sale posts
	 - Wanted to Swap posts
	 - Toy company histories
	 - Changing marketplace values of particular toys
	 - Determining factors on value fluctuations
	 - Vintage toy show dates, locations and reviews
	
	It is unacceptable to disuss toys that are not "vintage",
	as defined above, or any other irrelavant topics.
	
	END CHARTER.

This is the longest charter of all the toy-related newsgroups to date.

There was yet another controversy with the announcement of the voting results
for rec.toys.vintage. On February 22, 1996 the first result announcement stated
that the group had failed, 109:16 (failing the 100 more YES votes than NO votes rule). 
However, due to a problem with the voting software used to tabulate votes, some votes were
not counted. A second, corrected  result announcement was released and this time 
rec.toys.vintage had passed by a margin of 178:56. Rec.toys.vintage has the dubious 
distinction of receiving the most NO votes of any rec.toys.* proposal to date. Despite all
the controversy, rec.toys.vintage has a faithful following and remains a group with
moderate traffic and no apparent problems.


ACTION FIGURES

On April 8, 1996 the proposal for rec.toys.action-figures was formally
announced. Over the course of its two year history, rec.toys.misc had become
an extremely high traffic group with an average of well over 200 posts per day.
The proposal, written by Eric G. Myers (EGM), was designed to separate out
what had become the dominant topic of rec.toys.misc: Action Figures.

There were two main points of discussion prior to the formal proposal process.
The first involved whether a marketplace group should be proposed at the same
time (or in place of the action-figure group altogether).  The second issue was
one of naming. Some felt that it would be prudent and future-oriented to add a
.misc at the end of the group name to anticipate any future splits without
necessitating a renaming. However, a straw poll held by Pam Green helped to
resolve these issues. The straw poll showed mixed support for the marketplace
idea and general dislike of the ".misc" apellation.

And so the group rec.toys.action-figures was formally proposed with the
following charter:

	CHARTER: rec.toys.action-figures
	
	Rec.toys.action-figures is an unmoderated newsgroup for the discussion 	
	of action figure toys and related accessories. The scope of discussion 	
	within this group includes action figures, as well as action figure 		
	playsets, vehicles and other accessories intended for use with action 	
	figures. The types of posts within this group may include (but not be 	
	limited to) posts of news, release dates, collecting, customizing, and 	
	reviews related to action figures and their accessories.  Until the creation
	of a more appropriate forum, posts related to the buying, selling, 	
	and/or trading of action figures and related toys are acceptable in this 	
	group.  Crossposting to other rec.toys.* groups is discouraged.
	
	END CHARTER.

On June 13, 1996 the voting results were announced and rec.toys.action-figures
had passed by a margin of 137:20. Currently, rec.toys.action-figures has the
highest average daily traffic of all the rec.toys.* groups (rec.toys.misc is a close
second).

Addendum: Rec.toys.action-figures was 
split up into two groups: 
rec.toys.action-figures.discuss 
and
 rec.toys.action-figures.marketplace.


ALT GROUPS

The nature of the alt.* hierarchy makes recording its history more difficult. There
are several alt.* groups that deal with toy-related topics. Most notable of these
are alt.toys.gi-joe, alt.toys.transformers, and alt.food.pez. Although these groups
receive sparser propagation than the rec.toys.* groups, the alt.* groups still
thrive. To date, no attempts have been made to move these groups over to the
more widely propagated rec.* hierarchy. However, this remains a possibility for
the future.

If anyone has more detailed information regarding the alt.* groups related to
toys, please contact me at [email protected] or
[email protected].


THE FUTURE

The future looks rosy for the toy-related newsgroups. The opportunity for new
newsgroups exists in several forms. As previously mentioned, there is always
the possibility of moving the existing alt.* groups over to the rec.* hierarchy.
Without question, the idea that gets the most discussion is the idea of some type
of marketplace group.

However, there are many issues that need to be resolved before any
marketplace proposal could be successfully launched. Not the least of these is
the issue of where to place any marketplace group(s) within the existing
hierarchy (or potentially even creating a separate sub-hierarchy).  Informal
discussions will undoubtedly continue.

The existing toy groups are all healthy and thriving.  It appears that toy
discussions will be a fixture on the Usenet for a long time to come.

EGM - Copyright 1996

References for specific proposals:

rec.toys.lego & rec.toys.misc:
ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.toys

rec.toys.cars:
ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.toys.cars

rec.toys.fisher-price:
ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.toys.fisher-price

rec.toys.vintage:
ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.toys.vintage

rec.toys.action-figures:
ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.toys.action-figures

rec.collecting.dolls:
ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.collecting.dolls

rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting (Star Wars reorganization):
ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.arts.sf.starwars-reorg