Raving Toy Maniac

Maybe sdcc 2012 will tell ???

Maybe sdcc 2012 will tell ???

I was wondering this as well so I checked all the ask Mattys from this last round and about 3 times they said August, all star series 1 with new 52 Supes and Bats, Red Robin, and Superboy Prime and there's no series 2.

DCU 6" and Young Justice 4" just went on clearance at one Target here. If that's chainwide, then Target either won't be carrying them or they're going to get them under a new DPCI, which would be the first new DPCI for the line since DCU Wave 1. Walmart dropped DCU everywhere this year I think and TRU here never got wave 19 and 20. Not sure where I should expect to purchase these if they do come out.

tru's did get waves 19 and 20. ymmv

I thought Matty had confirmed that the entire 6" DC scale was canceled for retail? That the last items would be the TRU 2 Packs with the bad GL repaints and the Batman/Red Azrael? First they rearranged the lineups and then they canceled them all together. But then again, there hasn't really been any word on that in a couple months, so I reckon things could change. Pegs here are already clogging with the DKR Movie Masters Banes and Bats.

Matty had confirmed that the entire 6" DC Young Justice for sure and said they were re working the new wave

Last official word I heard was that this would be the one and only wave of All-Stars (I'm taking it that retailers didn't line up for the chance to put the versions DC wants pushed on their pegs), and that the whole thing would be re-worked for some sort of re-launch next year. But that was a while ago, and I've heard no updates.

Not a surprise; pushing the current DC versions of everything isn't going to thrill retailers when they realize there's maybe 150-200,00 people tops who even know about the re-dos, and not all of them are going to buy figures. With absolutely no media support outside the comics thus far for DCNU, I can see why retailers would be hesitant. Put out a classic Superman 90% of the world recognizes next to the trunkless tech suit version DC is pushing now, and who do you think the majority of people would buy?

The looks of the DCnU aren't as radically unrecognizable as many of the Supes and Bats already sold at retail through DCU, e.g. Sinestro Bats, long hair/black suit/electric boogaloo Supes.

My guess is retailers would simply rather carry the Bats and Supes movie lines while there are movies out there. Mattel can argue for DCU in a non-DC movie year by saying it's the only way to get Bats and Supes on the shelves, and the comics are the biggest media tie-ins out that year. But this seems similar to when Hasbro dropped the 1980s style G.I. Joe from retail when the movie Joe line came out.

Also, by now DCU has left a huge amount of pegwarmers in the system due to Mattel not resetting the line for 20 waves and clearancing backstock. That's not looking good on retailers' balance sheets. Of course Walmart has already dropped DCU and Target is doing the same at least in some stores. Walmart and TRU already failed to carry the last two DCU waves at some if not most stores. They're probably not eager to start a new DC series and since they can carry Bats and Supes through the movie lines, they have no incentive to.

I'm with Jedi on this one. Having worked at Toys R Us for many years, my experience would indicate that the average consumer is not going to to be put-off at the new 52 designs of Batman and Superman. Hardcore collectors may, but Mom, Dad and Little Jimmy won't.

Additionally, I think the fact that you could build a 1:1 scale replica of the Great Wall with leftover Captain Colds would create more reluctance from corporate buyers than the new designs (which most buyers couldn't be bothered to notice).

It's a shame they couldn't get that kid-friendly DCnU wave out there sooner. I just overheard another woman at TRU asking an employee if they had any Superman figures. This happened a couple months ago at the LCS too. And the stores never have any to offer. It's a darn shame Mattel couldn't get that "light blue" costume Superman out as a TRU exclusive this year during the DCU drought. I promise they would have sold every one within 3 months.

Some points:
1. There is no kid friendly wave of DCnU. The figures are likely going to be upwards of $17-18 at retail with no C&C parts and no accessories. Very, VERY few parents, if ANY, are going to lay out nearly 20 bucks for one of those figures when there are a bunch of 6” Batman figures two rows down for under $10. I don’t know how many times this point needs to be stressed, but the DCUC line became almost exclusively a collectors line the day the price point passed 12 bucks. Mom and junior are not a factor when Mom can find cheaper figures and convince junior the $10 Spidey or Batman is much cooler than the funky Superman who doesn’t have the cool bat-swords or web accessory.
2. As such, what collectors may pass on is of great importance to the line. The collecting community is very split on the DCnU, and the fact is you still have a LOT more people who recognize maligned characters like Black Vulcan than Red Robin.
3. When it comes to Technicolor versions of the characters, you have to look at some toy history. Batman and Iron Man are the only characters who have to any degree succeeded in the Technicolor, weird costume variant genre, likely because both characters lend themselves to it and have a long history of alternate costumes for specific purposes. Others like Supes have a much darker history in that area. The comic based Superman line from Kenner tanked quickly, as did the media supported Superman Animated line. And DCSH sank quickly as Mattel loaded case after case with random Superman variants no one was buying. And, let’s face it, even Bats has had major problems in the Technicolor arena, especially in Mattel’s first 6” line; the brilliance of short packing Robin, Joker and, most idiotically, the standard recognizable Batman in favor of purple and green variants that sat on pegs for months on end (and likely still sit in some remote stores in our country even today) sank within a year. Mattel has a very hard time with the concept of “variants with a purpose.” Many of Hasbro Bat variants succeeded because there was reason to buy them; many kids would want a second or third Batman because he came with a cool little sled or car or helicopter backpack. Heck, even I just bought one of the new 6” stylized line Batmans with the white anti-freeze suit because he looks good going up against Freeze.
4. The problem that arose with DCUC and major pegwarming started with the split cases. Initially, you got a case with a full set and one or two extras of the biggest guns; a few characters lingered more than others, as is the case in any line, but the real problem only started when Mattel started playing with pack-outs. Had Cold been the usual one per case before the changes, there likely would have been less of a problem with him. Then they began shipping the cases of worn out up to a year old figures to Target (their favorite place, it seems, to dump overproduced stock) in odd mixed cases. Power Girl was an unexpected problem, as there seemed to be a lot of demand for her, and I was as surprised as Mattel she didn’t sell better. But even that wouldn’t have been as much of a problem if Mattel hadn’t tried to save a few pennies by continuing her production and placed her in the very next case of figures as an All Star (a practice that they continued afterward to mixed results, at best). The problems stemmed less from the nature of the line and its characters than, as usual, the way Mattel shipped them out.

5. DCUC had media support for many of what folks considered the more obscure characters like Kamandi. Anyone think it’s a coincidence that so many of those lesser known characters like Gentleman Ghost were chosen around the time or after their appearances on the Brave and Bold cartoon? There were peg warmers here and there (and I’ll address that in a minute), but the line started really bogging down when the Skittles Lantern wave came out. I can still find an El Dorado on the pegs, true, but he’s usually joined by several Skittles that are still hanging there. The subsequent wave with the JSA characters fared much better, with only Magog consistently hanging on, at least around here. And, again, the JSA has had some significant media exposure, both in B&B and Smallville. Shifting to current comic book characters who have no support outside 150,000 or so fans cuts the base down significantly. Even Electric Bugaloo Supes Red and Blue could point to having a place in the Superman mythos in an era when the comic industry was selling books in numbers closer to a million. The modern age has far less of an appeal because there’s far less people following it.
6. One of the big problems with DCnU is that it has none of the above support. The new trunkless version of Supes would have more appeal to everyone, retailers included, if they’d ever seen it before. After “Man of Steel” premieres, you’ve got a major piece of media showing that new costume concept, and have a built in base. Right now, you still have the classic Supes in every venue outside the comics. Now this is something I’ve gone on record as saying Mattel is as much a victim of as the rest of us; I blame DC for this. It’s been apparent since last year that Mattel got sideswiped by DC deciding they weren’t going to approve anything but their new egofest versions of the characters, and Mattel got stuck with a limited use of the license they’d spent so much to get. DC’s big talk of promoting the new vision of their characters was nothing but big talk; basically they wanted Mattel to do part of their advertising for them in the toy aisle, but retailers balked. And, face it, if you put a classic Supes out beside Jim Lee Supes, who are the majority of collectors going to gravitate towards if they are looking for a Superman?
7. The problem that arose with DCUC and major pegwarming started with the split cases. Initially, you got a case with a full set and one or two extras of the biggest guns; a few characters lingered more than others, as is the case in any line, but the real problem only started when Mattel started playing with pack-outs. Had Cold been the usual one per case before the changes, there likely would have been less of a problem with him. Then they began shipping the cases of worn out up to a year old figures to Target (their favorite place, it seems, to dump overproduced stock) in odd mixed cases. Power Girl was an unexpected problem, as there seemed to be a lot of demand for her, and I was as surprised as Mattel she didn’t sell better. But even that wouldn’t have been as much of a problem if Mattel hadn’t tried to save a few pennies by continuing her production and placed her in the very next case of figures as an All Star (a practice that they continued afterward to mixed results, at best). The problems stemmed less from the nature of the line and its characters than, as usual, the way Mattel shipped them out.
8. Nothing is simple, and there’s a lot of things that contribute to the success or failure of any line. What I’ve talked about here are factors that had to have an effect, but we can likely argue how much until doomsday. But they can’t be completely discounted without ignoring much of what recent toy history should have taught us.

I do agree, though, that this would have been a prime time to release a few exclusives like the light blue Supes when there is little else to compete in that scale at the moment. It would have maybe kept a little presence at retail, if retailers were willing.

Here is a thought .... Mattel has done some crazy stuff and I wOuld not put it past them to release these figures in the club figures from matty collecter cause were are still waiting on 3 figures.... Tba.... Bats super and red robin could see the last of .... I could be happy about ..... Your thoughts ?

Here is a thought .... Mattel has done some crazy stuff and I wOuld not put it past them to release these figures in the club figures from matty collecter cause were are still waiting on 3 figures.... Tba.... Bats super and red robin could see the last of .... I could be happy about ..... Your thoughts ?

I think JediJones and Scott M. exchanged identities for this thread. That is one LONG post, Scott. Surprised there was no reference to "Avatar" in it.

There are plenty of parents or casual DC fans willing to shell out the $15 for the core DCU characters around here. Every time Superman popped up on the shelf last year he sold out very quickly. The DCU line took a turn just like Simpsons World of Springfield right around the 10th wave for each, where suddenly even straight repacks of the core characters started selling better than the all-new, obscure characters. Besides Power Girl, the All-Stars have never been reported as pegwarmers. Likewise Hawk and Dove are the worst pegwarmers of wave 20 and Atom is the worst in wave 17.

I would say generally the closer a variant figure looks to its classic look, the better it sells. But all the variant Hals and Flash always sold well here, except at Kmart who can't sell anything. The DCnU Supes and Bats are close enough to the originals that stores would have no problem selling them. And unless Mattel ships a tiny quantity like they did wave 19, casual buyers are the segment of the market who decides which figures become the pegwarmers. And it's never been the truly well-known (meaning they don't just appear on Smallville) male hero characters in the DCU line no matter what costumes they wore.

At this point the old DCSH line is too far in the past to count anymore. Superheroes in general are a much bigger cultural factor thanks to the movies and animation that has come out since then. Obviously you can ship too much too fast of anything, but if the DCnU wave ships in the same quantity as DCU has been, it will have no problem selling. And the one in the case who isn't a Supes or a Bats will definitely be the pegwarmer.

I've never so much as seen a kid with a DCUC figure in his hands, and have no reports that I've seen anywhere of folks seeing such a sight, so I've seen or heard no evidence that Mom and Junior are a factor at all here. The casual DC fan or the guy who recalls the super Friends fondly I'll gladly grant you (I have a friend who doesn't collect toys at all, but would have jumped at the Wonder Twins pack if he'd seen it at retail), but I still maintain that few parents are going to buy a $15-20 figure with cheaper alternatives a few pegs away, and I'll keep that belief until someone can show me significant reports to the contrary. As for Hal and Barry always selling, I guess you missed all the reports of the TRU exclusives backing up all over the country. Here, even the Batman’s backed up at TRU, and we never got any of the subsequent waves. Same happened with the Supes and Bats from the All Star cases that came in at a couple Walmarts, so your experience in your area doesn’t tell the whole tale.

As far as comparing DCSH, that was within the last decade, not the 80's, and while the Marvel market has expanded considerably, the DC market is stuck; Bats and Supes are it at the movies (and Supes not until next year), and there is less exposure as far as the cartoons go; if anything, DC's presence is at a low ebb, with dwindling, not expanding, DC product on the pegs and on the tube. When DCSH came out, we were still in the last throes of the Timm era, where DC cartoons were far more plentiful than they are now. At that time, there had been SIGNIFICANTLY more airwave presence for DC characters in the years leading up to the line than there is now, with more recent shows joined by older toons still appearing on Cartoon Network. DCUC actually came at a time when the TV presence was definitely fading; we had the movies coming back, but while Batman did well, Superman was received with less than enthusiasm. For most of DCUC’s run, it had basically the end of The Batman then Brave and Bold, with a gap filled only by an occasional Smallville guest hero to back it in a non-movie year. DCSH appeared on the heels of JLU and the older cartoons, plus The Batman. In other words, the playing field was at least level, if not bent a bit toward the earlier part of the decade, as far as DC saturation goes.

The facts of the last decade for DC 6” figures pretty well speak for themselves; the first attempt with Batman died under a deluge of Technicolor Bats. The DCSH line started well and then fell of the cliff inside a year, pushed by too many Superman variants. The latest incarnation you insist would sell has already had two waves cancelled and apparently has little retailer interest; we don’t even know right now if it’s going to find its way to the pegs or where. Even with Supes and Bats, and a second character with an “S” on his chest, retailers aren’t standing in line to carry it, and want nothing beyond it if they do. That’s the worst showing of all. The one 6” line that lasted 20 waves, beating even Toy Biz’ Marvel Legends, was DCUC, which featured a variety of characters. Just like with Justice League, which almost died under big gun variants, what sold was not all Supes, all Bats, all the time. What worked was a variety of characters being presented. Some sold better than others, but the whole line sold well enough to last through 20 waves even with Mattel’s usual antics and pack-out mistakes.

Sorry, but if I were making a business choice here, I would not base my decisions on tired, sweeping assumptions based on tired, sweeping toy industry dogma. I would look at what strategy actually worked in the marketplace I’m trying to sell my toys in, and base my decisions on that. The All Bats and Supes strategy failed three times, the latest most miserably. The variety strategy kept the line going for years, as it did in JLU (which is still actually offering product years after the show went off the air, to Mattel’s credit). Facts are facts, and you have to base your arguments on them.

I hope this wave comes out.Id rather have a 52 bats than the DC Direct one which I saw at B & N last week with the other Bat movie display.